From: Eris Discordia <eris.discordia <at> gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Using the Acme Editor
Newsgroups: gmane.os.plan9.general
Date: 2008-08-20 08:29:54 GMT (1 year, 2 weeks, 22 hours and 9 minutes ago)
> Oh, I'm waiting for a phone call before bed. What the hell.

Sleep tight. Every night.

> My job includes some programming, some document writing, lots of reading.

Programming _for_ Plan 9? Document writing _for_ Plan 9? Reading _about_ 
Plan 9?

I'm, of course, benignly assuming you create "usable" programs and 
documents. And read "useful" things. Couldn't Windows do the job? Or 
FreeBSD? Or what-have-you Linux? And better, easier?

> I've never been employed to count columns or fold lines.

Neither have I. You _still_ haven't figured out the difference between a 
work/task and a job/profession?

> interface encourages good mental habits that help me produce
> quality stuff.

Could your "quality" by any chance be _quantified_?

> I find the applications and interfaces in Plan 9 to be far more
> consistent and convenient than in other systems. That's true both
> for programming interfaces and user interfaces. This means I can
> let the system do its job and get out of my way without having to
> think about it as much as I do elsewhere.

Rationale? Examples? Comparison? Why would anyone else care how _you_ find 
it? Tell me how _I_ can do it. Tell _them_ how they can do it.

> do for me, that's fine (academically, I might speculate on why).

Academically, speculate on _what_ exactly Plan 9 does for you. Also, share 
your speculations.

> using the system productively are either delusional or just don't
> exist is highly insulting.

I don't remember having called anyone "delusional" or "non-existent."

The key here is that every new person who comes to 9fans and asks a few 
questions about very mundane things available elsewhere gets pathologically 
flamed about why "those darned things" shouldn't exist and how Plan 9 is so 
great by "not having them" and that they should go "do it themselves" if 
it's out of the 9people's narrow scopes/niches/specialization. _That's_ 
insulting, especially from a group who claim to offer--yes, when it's up 
for grabs and web sites say cool things about it it's an offer--a 
"complete" OS.

Why not put one these flames at a place visible from 
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/?

Just look at the sort of "solutions" this thread's originator has received. 
They've been told to use awk for matching HTML tags. Or to type "Edit =" 
and then do the acrobatics whenever they need to know their position in 
code--oh, and no "columns."

--On Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:29 PM -0400 a <at> 9srv.net wrote:

> // Bite if you please. Hook, line, and sinker ;-)
>
> Oh, I'm waiting for a phone call before bed. What the hell.
>
> My job has nothing to do with your 1-3. I agree with Steve exactly: I
> use Plan 9 because it allows me to get my job done easier. My job
> includes some programming, some document writing, lots of
> reading. I've never been employed to count columns or fold lines. I
> use Acme (even when not on Plan 9) because, at least for me, the
> interface encourages good mental habits that help me produce
> quality stuff.
>
> I find the applications and interfaces in Plan 9 to be far more
> consistent and convenient than in other systems. That's true both
> for programming interfaces and user interfaces. This means I can
> let the system do its job and get out of my way without having to
> think about it as much as I do elsewhere.
>
> You're also engaging in all sorts of poor logic in the "No True
> Scotsman" family in order to try and exclude folks like Coraid
> who're really excellent counter-examples to your claims: they
> use Plan 9 not for (the benefit of) Plan 9, but because it allows them
> to build products (for other people who likely have no idea Plan 9
> is involved) easier.
>
> If Acme (or Plan 9 generally) don't fit your style well, that's fine. If
> the interfaces don't have the same beneficial effects for you as they
> do for me, that's fine (academically, I might speculate on why).
> Feel free not to use it. But to imply that people who are actually
> using the system productively are either delusional or just don't
> exist is highly insulting.
>
> Anthony
>
>